Used Stamping Press for sale (12,663)

Condition: reconditioned (used), Year of construction: 2002, operating hours: 44,590 h, functionality: fully functional, pressing force: 200 t, filling opening width: 1,020 mm, filling opening length: 2,000 mm, bale width: 1,100 mm, bale height: 1,100 mm, bale weight: 1,000 kg, oil tank capacity: 3,100 l, power: 150 kW (203.94 HP), year of last overhaul: 2025, volume flow: 795 m³/h, Technical data baler: Manufacturer MACPRESSE EUROPA S.R.L. Typ 112 Year of construction 2002, partially refurbished in December 2025 Operating hours 44,590 hours, stand December 2025 Press power main press 200 tons Specific press capacity 16,5 kg/cm² Feed channel 2,000 x 1,020 mm Filling volume 2,65 cm³ Theoretic throughput rate 795 m³/h Bale size 1,100 x 1,100 mm, length variable Driving motor 2 x 75 kW Tying system 5-fold horizontal, full automatic Throughput rate at MSW approx. 48 up to 54 tons/h, depends on material Volume hydraulic oil tank 3,100 l Machine weight baler approx. 50,8 tons Scope of delifery: 1 piece baler MACPRESSE, type 111A 1 operating manual with CE declaration, electrical and hydraulic circuit diagram Comments: The machine was serviced and partially overhauled in our workshop. The following work was carried out and parts replaced: • Hydraulic oil tank emptied and cleaned • Oil and air filters replaced • New hydraulic oil filled • All hydraulic hoses replaced • Press ram dismantled, broken down into individual parts, mechanics made operational • Front two main rollers replaced • Knives on the press ram replaced • Main hydraulic cylinder dismantled, disassembled, cylinder tube and piston rod checked, complete seal set replaced • Counter knife in the frame replaced • Knife gap adjusted to approx. 3 mm • Upper steel guide rails in the frame on the left and right replaced. • Worn press base cut out, base plate replaced with wear-resistant HARDOX steel. • Binding and twisting unit dismantled, broken down into individual parts, mechanics made functional, all twisting shafts and ball bearings replaced. • All wire rollers in the needle heads replaced Iodpfxszbxwio Abvjth • Wire knives cleaned and readjusted, chains greased and tensioned • All wire deflection rollers made operational • All door contact switches replaced • Wirbulator device dismantled, disassembled and made operational • General maintenance work carried out Finally, the press was subjected to a machine test in manual and automatic mode, see video for the machine function test. The documentation (BA, CE, electrical/hydraulic circuit diagram) is complete. Viewing is possible by appointment. We accept no liability for the technical specifications or any errors.

Condition: new, sheet thickness: 10sheet length: 3200Combo Package: CNC Press Brake & Swing Beam ShearFor precise, efficient, and safe sheet metal processing We offer you a powerful complete package consisting of a CNC Press Brake (160t / 3200 mm) and a Swing Beam Shear (10 mm / 3200 mm) – perfectly matched for modern metalworking with high precision and productivity. CNC Press Brake – 160 Tons / 3,200 mmWith 4 CNC axes (Y1, Y2, X, R) & CNC-controlled crowning Standard Equipment:Heavy-duty design for precision bending and long service life CNC axes: Y1, Y2, X, and R – for accurate positioning and repeatability Motorized CNC-controlled crowning system for automatic angle correction ZY 68 CNC controller (similar to Delem) – user-friendly and highly flexible Backgauge with linear guides and ballscrew, equipped with 4 fingers 2 front sheet support arms for ergonomic handling Laser safety guard on the upper beam for operator protection Quick-clamp system for upper tools Itedezdwfijpfx Abveh Tooling system: Promecam/Amada, segmented and gooseneck for flexibility Multi-V die system – compatible with Promecam and Amada CE-compliant safety equipment Swing Beam Shear SWC 3200 x 10 mmWith NC control and motorized backgauge Technical Specifications:Sheet thickness: up to 10 mm, cutting length: 3,200 mm Cutting angle: 1.30°, Motor power: 15 kW Motorized backgauge: up to 1,000 mm Dimensions: L 3,800 × W 1,820 × H 1,920 mm Weight: 7,700 kg Equipment:Swing beam design for clean and accurate cuts NC control ELGO P40 T, with front-side operation including blade gap adjustment Hydraulic hold-downs positioned close to the cutting line User-friendly control panel on a swivel arm Foot pedal, blade gap adjustment & cutting line illumination Wide sheet support table with ball transfers, 2 front support arms with T-slot Flip-up finger guard, 1 side gauge with T-slot Upper blade reversible 2 times / Lower blade reversible 4 times Adjustable cutting length for efficient operation Qualified customer support, operating manual in English Machine and equipment comply with CE regulations Your Benefit – All-in-One Solution:Perfectly matched machines Time and cost savings through combined package Ideal for workshops, metal fabricators, and job shops Contact us now for a non-binding offer!

Condition: used, length: 2750width: 1100heigth: 2050weight approx.: 3500pressure: 50bending length: 2550 CNC Bending Press 3 Axes Y1, Y2, and Z Hydraulic Tool Clamping for the Upper Tool Darley System Technical Details: Machine Type: EHP 50.25/20 Max. Pressing Force: 500 kN Bending Length: 2550 mm Iodpfjwiatpsx Abvoth Downward Speed: 100 mm/s Max. Pressing Speed: 13.5 mm/s Return Speed: 75 mm/s Stroke Length: 120 mm Cylinders: 2 pcs Motor Power: 5.5 kW Oil Tank: 100 Liters

Condition: reconditioned (used), Year of construction: 2019, operating hours: 3,000 h, functionality: fully functional, pressing force: 70 t, overall weight: 9,500 kg, year of last overhaul: 2025, filling opening width: 420 mm, filling opening length: 1,250 mm, Technical data packing press / can press / metal sheet press: Manufacturer unoTech GmbH Type UPAXX 70 Year of manufacture 2019 Operating hours approx. 3,000 hours Pressing force 700 kN at 315 bar Filling opening chute 420 x 1,250 mm (d x w) Channel cross-section (package dimension) 350 x 500 mm (h x w), length depending on material Drive power 30 kW Iedpfx Abjzbxvljveth Connected load 40 kW Power consumption, total 70 A Throughput capacity for empty beverage cans with: one pressing stroke approx. 1.7 t/hour two pressing strokes approx. 2.5 t/hour Achieved compaction approx. 1200 kg/m³ Hydraulic oil tank capacity 850 l Press dimensions built up 8,000 x 1,600 x 2,500 mm (l x w x h) Transport weight press approx. 9.5 t Accessories: Oil cooler 1.5 kW, oil tank heater 1.5 kW, press box made of wear-resistant steel S355 Material properties: According to the manufacturer, this machine is suitable for pressing tin cans, metal sheet offcuts, sheet steel as well as aliminium, brass and copper waste. Condition of the baler: The packing press has been fully overhauled in our workshop. The press is in very good condition; please see the demonstration video following the overhaul. The machine sustained transport damage whilst being moved. The control cabinet was damaged and slightly dented by a forklift truck, and the main switch (on/off switch) was damaged. These damages are reflected in the significantly reduced sale price and must be repaired by the buyer at their own expense. Comments: The documentation (Manual, CE-declaration, electr./hydr.-drawings), are completely available. Inspections are possible after agreement. We will not assume liability for the given technical data and possible errors.

Condition: new, Year of construction: 2022, New machine Year of manufacture: 2022 • Hydraulic presses for gluing construction timber and blockboards • Compact footprint with front loading • Chassis on wheels, two of which are steerable • Height-adjustable hydraulic cylinders with manual adjustment—practical and functional • Vertically adjustable columns with frame pressing device Technical data: Working surface(s): 1 Usable dimensions: 2500 x 1800 mm Number of vertical hydraulic cylinders with manual adjustment: 3 Number of horizontal manual hydraulic cylinders: 2 Itsdpfx Abjkwhb Hevjh Travel of hydraulic cylinders with manual adjustment: 60 mm Pressure of hydraulic cylinders with manual adjustment: 1500 kg Installation dimensions approx. 3200 x 800 x 2200 mm Location: Flörsheim Availability: short notice

Condition: reconditioned (used), functionality: fully functional, input voltage: 400 V, input frequency: 50 Hz, DGUV certified until: 08/2027, type of input current: three-phase, year of last overhaul: 2026, Dough divider and shaping machine TOP Fortuna roll former, size 3 Robust technology Dough head newly revised Stainless steel knives, new Connection: 400V, 16A-CEE plug Dimensions: 580 x 580 x 1350 mm (W x D x H) Used machine, refurbished with warranty + spare parts service Optional: Stainless steel platform New shaping plate Service package Maintenance contract Training & commissioning Delivery service Test our exclusive service for you! Itedpfew Hn H Eex Abveh

Condition: reconditioned (used), functionality: fully functional, input voltage: 400 V, input frequency: 50 Hz, DGUV certified until: 07/2027, type of input current: three-phase, year of last overhaul: 2026, Roll divider Fortuna Automat A 4 H TOP dough dividing and rounding machine TOP model roll divider very robust technology! Itsdpfx Abozccz Uevsh with rounding stop function head cleaning dividing head newly revised with stainless steel knives – NEW only available from us, DGUV V3 certified connection 400V, 16A-CEE plug dimensions approx.: 770 x 730 x 1500 mm (W x D x H) Used machine, refurbished & SAB tested with warranty We have many more dough dividers in our large showroom!

Condition: used, Year of construction: 2005, Max. pressing force 80 t Max. length 2500 mm Stroke 200 mm Machine weight 5750 kg Itedjzdf D Uepfx Abvoh

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 2013, functionality: fully functional, Used Durma press brake Type AD S 30175 Capacity 3050 x 175 tons Delem DA66T control system Y1, Y2, X and R axis CNC controlled CNC crowning Amada / Euro clamp Includes a set of tooling Ijdpjzbhnkjfx Abvoth

Condition: refurbished (used), Year of construction: 2008, Used AMADA press brake: Illustrative image, machine in stock but not yet prepared. It will be in the same condition once it has been refurbished. Year: 2008 Type: HFE400-4L Iodpfxezbg Sbs Abvjth Capacity: 4000 x 400T Number of axes: 6 Stroke of cylinders: 350 mm Rapid traverse speed: 100 mm/sec Installation of new, high-tonnage tooling along the entire length Machine completely refurbished upon order.

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 2008, functionality: fully functional, Well-maintained, used E Brake by Safan Type E Brake 100 3100 Capacity 3100 x 100 tons Y1, Y2, X, R, Z1, and Z2 CNC controlled Manual crowning Hydraulic Wila NS top clamp Ijdpfx Aozbhk Eobvsth

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 1996, Well-maintained, used press brake from Beyeler / Bystronic. Type PR6 150 4100 Capacity: 4100 x 150 tons Cybelec DNC 880S Y1, Y2, X, R, Z1, and Z2 axes CNC controlled Iodpezbhh Rofx Abvjth Includes a set of tools.

Condition: refurbished (used), Automatic line for forging / hot stamping Installed after refurbishing in 2015 and having run for not more than 1,000 hours, condition is excellent. ➢ ADIGE CM 500 AUTOMATIC SAW ➢ 50 KW INDUCTION OVEN ➢ ELECTRONIC AUTOMATION SYSTEM ➢ VACCARI SCREW PRESS 180 screw diameter ➢ 10-POINT AUTOMATIC LUBRICATION SYSTEM ➢ BALCONI 50T TRIMMING PRESS ADIGE CM 500 AUTOMATIC SAWING MACHINE WITH 3.5-METER AUTOMATIC BAR LOADER Technical specifications: -Min./max. cutting capacity: 8 mm / 60 mm diameter -Standard cutting speed: ADIGE SALA. -Head motor power: (50 Hz) 2.2 kW -End-of-bar scrap equal to or shorter than the usable piece -Central hydraulic tank capacity: 200 liters -Cutting emulsion tank capacity: 50 liters -Weight: approx. 1,200 kg -Siemens electrical components Ijdpfxezcdluj Abveth 50 kW INDUCTION OVEN WITH 1 INDUCTOR (8–20 mm) with ELECTRONIC LOADING ARM For horizontal and vertical loading of work pieces Features a brushless motor, programmable axes, and press interpolation with electric axes; electronic components: Siemens Load capacity: 4 kg; vertical stroke: 80 mm; power supply: Electro-pneumatic VACCARI SCREW PRESS 180 screw diameter Technical specifications: -Screw diameter: 180 mm -Theoretical pressure: 300 tons -Table dimensions: 430 x 550 mm -Slide dimensions: 500 x 650 mm -Ram stroke: 350 mm -Distance between uprights below the guides: 450 mm -Distance between uprights within the guides: 350 mm -Max. height between table and ram: 650 mm -Strokes per minute: 35 -Table height under the guides: 300 mm -Main motor: hp 30 -Machine dimensions: 4100 x 2600 x 2200 mm -Approximate weight: 11,000 kg NEW SIEMENS S7 ELECTRICAL SYSTEM NEW PNEUMATIC SYSTEM NEW LUBRICATION SYSTEM BALCONI 50T TRIMMING PRESS Technical specifications: -Power: 50 tons -Table dimensions: 800 x 500 mm -Ram dimensions: 440 x 380 mm -Max. die height: 400 mm -Adjustable stroke: 100 mm -Strokes per minute: 35–100 -Main motor power: 5.5 kW

Condition: excellent (used), Year of construction: 2005, functionality: fully functional, pressing force: 100 t, stroke length: 215 mm, table length: 4,100 mm, Equipment: CE marking, High quality fully serviced Bystronic 4metre cnc pressbrake for sale PR100 100 x 4100 Make: Bystronic Edwards Pearson Model: PR 100 Pressure Reference Year / new: 2005 Total axis: 4 – 2axis back gauge X R – complete with 2 additional fingers on the back gauge, 4 fingers in total. With built in hemming table for producing sheet metal flashings or safety edges on sheet metal Hydraulic crowning Free standing no pit required Itedpfx Abezdgnnsvsh Capacity / bed size / tonnage: 4metre x 4100mm x 100ton Cnc control: Cybelec Modeva 10S control Max stroke 215mm Rapid approach 180mm/s Bending cycle 10mm/s Rapid return 150mm/s

Condition: used, Safan 120-4300 TS-1 CNC Pressbrake Year 2004 Pressing Force 120 Ton Bending Length 4,300 mm Distance between Uprights 3,600 – 3,700 mm Maximum Stroke 180 mm Open Height (Table to Ram) 510 mm Throat Depth 400 mm Table Width 160 mm Main Motor Power 7.5 kW Control System Safan TS-1 CNC Number of Controlled Axes Typically 4 Axis (Y1, Y2, X, R) Electrical Supply 400V / 3 Phase Machine Weight Approx. 11,700 – 12,300 kg Machine Dimensions (L × W × H) Approx. 4,500 × 1,650 × 2,900 mm Itedpfxjzdgnbe Abvoh

Condition: used, Rico Syncro PRCN 30-135M CNC Pressbrake Itedpfx Aszdghnobvjh Cyblec DNC 60 Control Year 2006 Foot Pedal Laser Guards Top & Bottom Tooling 130ton Capacity x 3100mm 9200kg Footprint 3900mm x 2000mm x 2600mm

Condition: used, Year of construction: 1978, pressure 800 t Iodpovuk Ipsfx Abvoth distance between columns 3010 mm stroke 300 mm distance table/ram, max. stroke up, adjustment up 1350 mm table surface area 3000 x 1800 mm table height over floor 500 mm side window 1500 x 1400 mm ram surface 3000 x 1800 mm speed down 300 mm/s oil volume 900 l height over floor 5,4 m height beneath floor 2,1 m power requirement 200,0 kW weight 80,0 t Dimensions (WxDxH) 5,2 x 2,6 x 7,5 m SPECIAL DEAL hydraulic high-speed press with oil-hydraulic drive, controllable dependent on pressure/time and way, hydraulic cutting impact cushioning, mechanical depth stop (motoric adjustable), ram interlocking in upper position maximum stroke frequency 50/min (when using automatic feeding devices) as is where is, WITHOUT putting into operation, stored in dismantled condition

Year of construction: 1988, condition: good (used), machine/vehicle number: 11801, Gietz FSA 720 Foil/stamping embossing press. size 720x520 mm, minimum sheet size 297x210, Double sheet detection, pressure 120 t, max speed 5000 sheets/h, pile height 950 mm with max 700kg, pile height on delivery 700mm, dimensions of the machine 380x280x195 cm Itsdpownqrgefx Abvoh Machine no: 11801

Condition: excellent (used), Catalogue no.: 7815 TECHNICAL DATA Worktable dimensions (L/W): 2900x1200mm Overall table dimensions: 3000x1300mm Operating temperature: ±40-60°C Maximum temperature: ±60°C Total machine power: 5.25kW Vacuum pump power: 0.90kW Vacuum pump capacity: approx. 25/30m3/h Noise level: approx. 70dB Dimensions (L/W/H): 3060x1400x1400mm Weight: 360kg – DTR Documentation – Unpainted – Very good condition – Used press Itodpfozcu Sfex Abvsh Net price: 21,900 PLN Net price: 5,200 EUR depending on the exchange rate of 4.2 EUR (Prices may change with higher fluctuations)

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 1990, Roll compactor, Bergmann – used: Price ex works: only €950 (net) Manufacturer: Bergmann Type: PS 8100E Year of manufacture: 1990 Itsdpfszbygrsx Abvoh Serial number: 05 3658 2845/90 Pressing pressure: to Weight: 750 kg 400V, 5.5 kW Condition: good Available: from Q4/2026 Location: Hamburg Efficient waste compaction: A special steel drum enables effective collection, shredding and compaction of the waste, reducing its volume up to ninefold. Continuous filling: The machine allows for continuous filling by all users. The feed shaft can also remain open during the working process, which facilitates and accelerates waste compaction.

Condition: as good as new (ex-display), Year of construction: 2026, Working width 4500 mm Working height 3000 mm Number of cylinders 6 St. Dimensions (L/W/H) 5500x1400x3550 mm Weight 3000 kg S&S frame press Bavaria 2000 L, built 2026 ----- SHORT TIMED availabe exw warehouse Engelfried, 73447 Oberkochen NEW for the Holz-Handwerk 2026 trade fair in Nuremberg: Now also with semi-automatic positioning of the vertical press cylinders 1, 2, and 3 via enabling switch, including ON/OFF selector switch for beam 2 With automatic pressing cycle + manual control Iodpfxjyyqnfs Abvoth for corner connections tenon+slots and dowel connection/mortised tenon, can be switched using a selector switch on the control cabinet. With basic equipment for optional use of counter profiles if the sash is rebated on the loose part. CE version Basic machine in the strongest frame welded construction, with thick-walled special hollow profiles. Guideways of the pressure beams for the press corners in a low-abrasion machined version. Fast, smooth, manual width adjustment using ball-bearing carriage, fixing in 50 mm hole grid, optional motorized width adjustment with hydraulic clamping (at an additional cost). Height adjustment and pressing using long-stroke cylinders in one work cycle. Right-hand press corners with integrated horizontal cylinders, therefore no vertical positioning of the horizontal pressure cylinders is necessary, which avoids cylinder collisions. Lower support can be adjusted in several positions to the most suitable insertion height. 3 KW compact hydraulic system with integrated control block, variable pressure control from 20 - 120 bar, pressure gauge Control via touch button with separate control circuits for the vertical and horizontal press cylinders, mounted on a freely movable control panel. 2 vertical press cylinders, double-acting, stroke adapted to working height, piston diameter 60 mm Pressure force per cylinder max. 2100 kg 2 horizontal press cylinders, double-acting, 80 mm stroke, piston diameter 40 mm Pressure force per cylinder max. 1250 kg Abutment and pressure plate depth 100 mm Control cabinet on the machine base on the left, 400 volts, 50 Hz Machine with ready-to-connect plug 16 A Paint: RAL 7035 light gray with RAL 7016 anthracite gray Working size: length x height = 4,500 mm x 2,750 mm Note: Actual working size: 4,500 x 3,000 mm (length x height) Space required: 5,500 mm x 1,400 mm x 3,550 mm (LengthxWidthxHeight) Article medium pressure bar complete with pressure cylinder, pressure hose and shut-off valve up to 2,750 mm high Note: actual working height: 3,000 mm Article Individual pressure control for medium pressure bar, pressure control range up to max. 100 bar (For pressing cross-bar windows) Article infinitely height-adjustable cross pressure device, complete with pressure cylinder and abutment, throttle and shut-off valve Article Individual pressure control for cross pressure device pressure control range up to max. 100 bar (For pressing cross-bar window) Article Shut-off valve on the 3rd vertical cylinder Article Shut-off valve on the upper horizontal cylinder Article Shut-off valve on the lower horizontal cylinder ...

Condition: good (used), Year of construction: 1999, Baling presses, HSM, 30-ton pressing force – used: Price ex works: only €2,950 (net) Manufacturer: HSM Type: 225.1 VL Year of manufacture: 1999 Machine number: 6124.834. N Serial number: 200014505 Pressing force: 30 tons Iedpozbygfjfx Abvjth 400V, 5.5kW Condition: good Available: from Q4/2026 Location: Hamburg

Condition: reconditioned (used), Working width 3500 mm Working height 2550 mm Number of cylinders 6 St. loading dimensions L x W x H 4500x950x2900 mm Hess Speedy frame press ----- will be checked Insertion dimension / pressing length max. 3,500 mm Insertion dimension / pressing height max. 2,550 mm Sliding carriage for width adjustment locking in 50 mm Double hole grid system Electric height adjustment of the long-stroke cylinders (hydraulic) Insertion height of the abutment plates can be preselected in 4 positions 3 vertical printing cylinders stroke 1000 mm Pressure force per cylinder 2000 kN / 20000 N 3 horizontal printing cylinders stroke 80 mm Pressure force per cylinder 1250 kN / 12500 N Printing plate depth 100 mm width 140 mm Grid for cylinder fixation/rear bearing 50 mm Medium pressure beam with shut-off valve Itedpfxjxnqw Tj Abveh Final pressure switch-off and pressure control Control and pressing process in touch button operation Adjustable pressing pressure min. 25 – max. 160 bar Electrical connection 2.2 kW / 400V 3 pendulum pressure plates for studio windows 1 pendulum pressure plate for pointed windows 1 extension for pendulum pressure plate 1 small parts allowance Image and video not original, show identical model ----- (technical data according to the manufacturer - no guarantee!)

Condition: reconditioned (used), Working width 3600 mm Working height 2600 mm Number of cylinders 5 St. loading dimensions L x W x H 4400 x 1150 x 2970 mm weight 3000 kg Schafberger + Sproedhuber Bavaria Frame Press ----- Machine is overhauled by us before delivery. With automatic pressing cycle + manual control for tenon + slot corner joints. CE-certified version Basic machine in the strongest welded frame construction, with thick-walled special hollow profiles. Guideways for the pressure beams for the press corners in a low-wear machined design. Fast, smooth, manual width adjustment via ball-bearing carriages, fixed in a hole pattern. Height adjustment and pressing via long-stroke cylinders in a single work cycle. Right-side press corners with integrated horizontal cylinders, therefore no vertical positioning of the horizontal pressure cylinders necessary, thus avoiding cylinder collisions. Lower abutment adjustable in several positions for the most favorable insertion height. 3 vertical press cylinders, double-acting, stroke adjusted to working height 2 horizontal press cylinders, double-acting Abutment and pressure plate depth 80 mm Working size: Length x Height = approx. 3,600 mm x 2,600 mm Space requirement/loading dimensions: approx. 4,400 mm x 1,150 mm x 2,970 mm Iedpfxow T Un Uo Abvsth (Length x Width x Height) Option: ALWA pressing supports for sloped windows (Technical specifications according to the manufacturer – no guarantee! Images may differ from the original. Prices are net, plus VAT (domestic))

Condition: ready for operation (used), Working width 3450 mm Working height 2000 mm Number of cylinders 5 St. loading dimensions L x W x H 3600 x 1200 x 2720 mm Hess "Multipress" Perforated Plate Press Ijdpfx Aewqr R Ajbvjth For all sloped, segmental, and round-arch windows and doors. Also for interior work or frame construction. For gluing staircase block joints and much more. Largest working area approx. 3450 x 2000 mm External dimensions approx. 3600 x 1200 x 2720 mm The vertical perforated plate press is constructed of heavy-duty, torsion-free steel. Thanks to its simple, robust, and economical design, it has a long service life. The perforated plate is made of 10 mm sheet steel with a 50 mm hole pattern. The pressure cylinders and abutments are self-locking. 5 plug-in hand hydraulic cylinders on a perforated plate with a built-in pump, 2000 kp pressure relief valve, 140 mm pressure plate width, 80 mm pressure plate depth, 60 mm cylinder stroke 4 fixed individual abutments (Technical specifications according to the manufacturer - no guarantee!)